Server Population

[SomeGuy]

Hello! 

 

I wanted to kick off a discussion about how could we increase the server population. To clarify, I am talking about concurrent players count. I will start with questions (in bold font) and my answer - I want to hear your answers too. Feel free to discuss more points.

• What is the implications if the concurrent player count was significantly increased? Both positives and negatives (they can be subjective, keep this in mind)
  • Positives:
    • More availability for party quests
    • More competitive prices for FM (IHMO, anyway, I am no economy expert)
    • Improved social aspect of the game
    • Economy will be more diversified 
    • More guilds will be formed (related to point above)
    • More opportunities for interesting conversations (again, see point above)
    • Game feels more alive and vibrant 
    • More players in your level range
    • More players online means more nostalgic experience 
  • Negatives:
    • More difficult to form a party quest if channels or PQ instances are not sufficiently provided
      • May be viewed as positive for nostalgic experience...
    • Economy will be affected negatively in some ways. Perhaps your scrolls you spent on may be worth less now
    • Maps became more crowded
    • less town-y feeling
• Do you have ideas how to incentivize/retain more players? Please explain your reasoning. 
  • I believe that the exp rate could be adjusted.
    • For example, 1.5x to 2x.
      • My reasoning is that I see lot of players were burnt out by LPQ levels. My experience, anyways. 
  • Incentive players to vote more.
    • Maybe exclusive pets (purely cosmetic), You still have to pay with pesos for pet skills.
    • Hear me out... other MS private servers have HP washing (yuck!) and to order to HP wash, you need to vote to earn vote cash.
      • basically make it vote to have exclusive pets? 
  • Voting streak 
    • For example: you will get extra 100 Maple Points if you vote every 12 hours. With cap obviously.

There is not a right or wrong answers. I want to see Phoenix to grow and prosper. I remember similar servers prior to this server have more pop count, forum activity, etc...

Edited August 25, 2020 by SomeGuy

[Fayt]

Yeah I defintiely agree with the nx stuff. We get so little for voting its enough to scare off players who care a lot about being able to customize their characters. Which from my experience is most maplers lol

[opman]

11 hours ago, SomeGuy said:

For example, 1.5x to 2x

well maybe not change server exp rates but rather lower the exp required 'to next level (tnl)', giving a somewhat overall 1.5x~1.75x exp rate like feel. By having trenches of exp tnl reduced that encourages players to strive for higher levels and be rewarded with further exp tnl reduction. Also, so the old players who have previously put in the hours of grinding/ pq can reap the benefit and have their old exp gained throughout their levels, carried forward onto the new exp required table and not feel left out. Meaning if ure lvl 50 before the lowered exp tnl, after the changes, you'd be compensated the excess exp you've gained from prior levels.

For example: from an old thread. Feel free to customise rates

EXP tnl:
Combo 2 (approx 39% overall reduction/ 1.75x Exp-like rates)
- 20% Reduce in the Required Exp tnl from lv 40 to 69 (1.4x exp feel)
- 25% Reduce in the Required Exp tnl from lv 70 to 99 (1.5x exp feel)
- 30% Reduce in the Required Exp tnl from lv 100 to 129 (1.6x exp feel)
- 35% Reduce in the Required Exp tnl from lv 130 to 159 (1.7x exp feel)
- 40% Reduce in the Required Exp tnl from lv 160 to 200. (1.8x exp feel)
After Combo 2: 23,507,766,709 (New Total EXP), 61% of the 100% Exp.

Edited August 24, 2020 by opman

[pantthunder]

Sorry to rain on your parade but there are other servers that have what you are explaining as their exp rate. If not, close to it. This is a x1x1x1 server for a reason. And the best x1x1x1 private server on gtop. Everyone here is playing Phoenix for the nostalgic grind we all did when we were younger. Only thing that isn't nostalgic about the server is how it allows multi clienting. 

But if you want to play a server that's easier then there is multiple others for just for you. 

Also, what level is your main Opman? If it's not 70 then you haven't even hit the struggle yet.

Edited August 24, 2020 by pantthunder

[SomeGuy]

1 hour ago, pantthunder said:

Sorry to rain on your parade but there are other servers that have what you are explaining as their exp rate. If not, close to it. This is a x1x1x1 server for a reason. And the best x1x1x1 private server on gtop. Everyone here is playing Phoenix for the nostalgic grind we all did when we were younger. Only thing that isn't nostalgic about the server is how it allows multi clienting. 

But if you want to play a server that's easier then there is multiple others for just for you. 

Also, what level is your main Opman? If it's not 70 then you haven't even hit the struggle yet.

I am happy with 1x 1x 1x. My problem is low population. I know some players quit playing Phoenix (one was in 5x level) due to virtually all guild members quitting. EXP rate increase was just one of ideas to help retain more active player.  Perhaps in one year or two, Phoenix would grow to constant 150+ players. Gotta give it time, I guess.

 

Thing is, I have no proof or statistics to back up, but I am pretty sure there will be more hardcore players if there is more players online. Social aspect of MS is quite important.

Also...other servers you thought of probably have HP washing, leeching, v83 (which I don't like), 4th job, etc...

Edited August 24, 2020 by SomeGuy

[opman]

1 hour ago, pantthunder said:

Sorry to rain on your parade but there are other servers that have what you are explaining as their exp rate. If not, close to it. This is a x1x1x1 server for a reason. And the best x1x1x1 private server on gtop. Everyone here is playing Phoenix for the nostalgic grind we all did when we were younger. Only thing that isn't nostalgic about the server is how it allows multi clienting. 

But if you want to play a server that's easier then there is multiple others for just for you. 

Also, what level is your main Opman? If it's not 70 then you haven't even hit the struggle yet.

well its just a suggestion mate, we're here to contribute ideas, also yes i have above lv70+ character and struggle is somewhat irrelevant to this topic. ty tho

1 hour ago, SomeGuy said:

I am happy with 1x 1x 1x. My problem is low population. I know some players quit playing Phoenix (one was in 5x level) due to virtually all guild members quitting. EXP rate increase was just one of ideas to help retain more active player.  Perhaps in one year or two, Phoenix would grow to constant 150+ players. Gotta give it time, I guess.

 

yea me too, im fine w 1x server and i agree with u, afterall, whats a server without much population to drive the supply & demand n some social mingling?

Edited August 24, 2020 by opman

[Sorsina]

This server was started nearly two years ago.  Can't say what it was like in November 2018..  there was probably a new server rush, as usual.  Though when I joined around April 2019 the online count was usually in the single digits, and we were kind of lucky to have double digit online count.  That didn't stop us back then, and I feel it made player interactions more special. We had buddied who we could, and it felt cool to be able to gather everyone up on the server to actually do a LPQ for once.  It feels a lot different now than it did then.

Guess what I'm saying is that the server population still seems alright, and it's not necessarily bad if it's lower.  You're looking at it all wrong if you think Phoenix is in trouble.  It had much lower numbers and only experienced a boom after a different private server died and so many new players migrated over.  As a wave breaks on the beach, it also recedes.

Other things to take away.  DONT TOUCH THE EXP RATES.  Just don't, okay?  It's a 1x server.  Raising the rates will piss off many existing players, and does not mean we get more players or even keep new players for longer. All changing the rates really does is change the level at which a player quits.

Maybe what we should actually do is nerf or limit LPQ and really notorious grinding spots like Eos 94.  The less braindead and repetitive ways to level there are, the more we encourage players to do things that are actually... fun?

Voting incentive is also fine.  People can easily find Phoenix on the ranking site.  And if people really want cosmetic items, they can donate.  This helps financially support the server.  🙂

I think what we really need are some fun and unique events.  I don't mean the same old jump quest that every server has had for the past 15 years, or ola ola, or the canned Nexon holiday events.  What I mean is a bit of interaction from Arnah and some other staff members, if there are any other staff members, would be fun, and if we had some unique little activities, it would be far more interesting than sitting around the FM.

[SomeGuy]

1 hour ago, Sorsina said:

This server was started nearly two years ago.  Can't say what it was like in November 2018..  there was probably a new server rush, as usual.  Though when I joined around April 2019 the online count was usually in the single digits, and we were kind of lucky to have double digit online count.  That didn't stop us back then, and I feel it made player interactions more special. We had buddied who we could, and it felt cool to be able to gather everyone up on the server to actually do a LPQ for once.  It feels a lot different now than it did then.

Guess what I'm saying is that the server population still seems alright, and it's not necessarily bad if it's lower.  You're looking at it all wrong if you think Phoenix is in trouble.  It had much lower numbers and only experienced a boom after a different private server died and so many new players migrated over.  As a wave breaks on the beach, it also recedes.

Other things to take away.  DONT TOUCH THE EXP RATES.  Just don't, okay?  It's a 1x server.  Raising the rates will piss off many existing players, and does not mean we get more players or even keep new players for longer. All changing the rates really does is change the level at which a player quits.

Maybe what we should actually do is nerf or limit LPQ and really notorious grinding spots like Eos 94.  The less braindead and repetitive ways to level there are, the more we encourage players to do things that are actually... fun?

Voting incentive is also fine.  People can easily find Phoenix on the ranking site.  And if people really want cosmetic items, they can donate.  This helps financially support the server.  🙂

I think what we really need are some fun and unique events.  I don't mean the same old jump quest that every server has had for the past 15 years, or ola ola, or the canned Nexon holiday events.  What I mean is a bit of interaction from Arnah and some other staff members, if there are any other staff members, would be fun, and if we had some unique little activities, it would be far more interesting than sitting around the FM.

Thank for sharing your view! You might be onto something. I think you are quite correct, adjusting exp rate would piss lot of players. You may be also correct in regards of incentivizing voting, I just think the higher in ranking, the more likely players would notice and may be more interested in. Players may not increase much, so might not worth of investing development time... IDK. As for nerfing training spots, I don't know if it will change -- players will just find other spot to train. 

 

Community driven events may be good idea. Competition in media area, such as screenshots or videos - specific themes. Make it more engaging and lets the players to take a break from training...Events that gives out purely cosmetic equipments/pets sounds cool to me. And of course, more 1.5x events. It definitely will boost more players in short term and may keep some players ... keep playing. For example, if I levelled up quite a bit during 1.5x exp event and I met new players as a result, I would be more inclined to keep playing due to having buddies and guild mates online. You get the idea. This will increase forum activity, too. It may not much, but the more people post on forums, the people will see that there is community and may consider trying Phoenix out.

 

I don't necessarily think that Phoenix is in trouble, just that I would love to see the server grow. More players = more fun (for me at least). The Phoenix staff did an awesome job maintaining the server. I honestly just throwing ideas out there. I feel that there is a need to balance between fun (events, competitions, etc) versus grinding.

Edited August 24, 2020 by SomeGuy

[Arnah]

I have no plans to change exp rate because version updates do that for us automatically. More quests, party quests, training areas, scrolls all make the game easier and every version update touches at least one of those. An issue exists though where people see "1x" and lose interest despite v1 1x and v41 1x being insanely different for even level 1-30.

 

I also saw a mention about making a basic set of pets for meso with the rest being maple points which I think is fine and can look into.

[Fayt]

I'm new here and I think the XP rate is fine, But if anything adding a xp bonus for being in a party with xx members would be real cool and promote playing with people. Otherwise its fine really.  I think maybe adding some HP/MP potions rewards in lowbie quests would help immensely. I almost lost my patience with all my deaths until I killed some slime kings in hhg and sold the cakes for some mesos to get arrows and potions. Not sure if thats an event or not but its the only thing that saved my ass lol

[Sorsina]

It's not really that hard starting out, though maybe it's a bit tedious. At least everyone can get a relaxer on maple island, which helps A LOT.

People don't seem to realize that when you start out, they need to use basic attacks a lot and using skills constantly is a luxury.  You can also make 1000 arrows with one processed wood and one stiff feather. That's quite a bargain if you need lots of arrows.

Yes, the king slimes are an event.  🙂

[SomeGuy]

2 hours ago, Sorsina said:

It's not really that hard starting out, though maybe it's a bit tedious. At least everyone can get a relaxer on maple island, which helps A LOT.

People don't seem to realize that when you start out, they need to use basic attacks a lot and using skills constantly is a luxury.  You can also make 1000 arrows with one processed wood and one stiff feather. That's quite a bargain if you need lots of arrows.

Yes, the king slimes are an event.  🙂

I agree 🙂 

 

I remember starting out as a mage. It was not too bad, but like you said, a bit tedious. But this gives me chance to observe other players and start a conversation.

 

10 hours ago, Arnah said:

I have no plans to change exp rate because version updates do that for us automatically. More quests, party quests, training areas, scrolls all make the game easier and every version update touches at least one of those. An issue exists though where people see "1x" and lose interest despite v1 1x and v41 1x being insanely different for even level 1-30.

 

I also saw a mention about making a basic set of pets for meso with the rest being maple points which I think is fine and can look into.

I have not thought of that. You have a point here, Arnah.

 

8 hours ago, Fayt said:

I'm new here and I think the XP rate is fine, But if anything adding a xp bonus for being in a party with xx members would be real cool and promote playing with people. Otherwise its fine really.  I think maybe adding some HP/MP potions rewards in lowbie quests would help immensely. I almost lost my patience with all my deaths until I killed some slime kings in hhg and sold the cakes for some mesos to get arrows and potions. Not sure if thats an event or not but its the only thing that saved my ass lol

Welcome to Phoenix! 

Personally I don't like quests that give too much HP/MP pots - to the point you can use skills constantly. It removes old school feel. Bonus exp in a party would be nice but need to be handled carefully. However, I do not think that Arnah would like do it, because the whole point of this server is keeping old school and original as it is. Perhaps make it that you lose less exp (in other words, gain more exp) when in a party slightly... IDK.

Edited August 25, 2020 by SomeGuy

[opman]

Maybe revert the coolies map layout to its original flat layout as a form of Quality of Life improvement, like in this suggestion: 

 

I've know afew groups of friends from prev 3rd job server of whom avoid phoenix partially cuz of the coolies multi platform layout (current), having majority of dps players head to fog from lvl 50~54 till later lvls and leaving clerics to most of the time solo coolies/wraith w slower exp than fog, one of the reason that reduces our available hs class in server and affecting in some players quality of life grinding.

[SomeGuy]

Another idea is to implement voting streak. I am not sure why Arnah did not implement it. Adding it to my original post.

[opman]

On 8/25/2020 at 2:26 PM, Arnah said:

training areas, scrolls all make the game easier

cleric lives matter... bring back flat coolies map layout thanks, we alrdy dont have cromi drops, so less 1 equip to npc and soloing(most of the time)/ partying is just pathetic rates there. we literally r the only class missing out on fog's exp train n the good drops there. at least, we can retain existing players who like coolie grinds or maybe attract potential newplayers

Edited August 27, 2020 by opman

[Sorsina]

Wizards don't do well in FoG either. And with the insane spawn rate and how fat the golems are, I don't think ranged classes do all that well there either until 3rd job. Complaining about not getting a FoG party isn't a good reason to change anything. Perfectly flat maps are boring and have massive balance issues.

[opman]

6 hours ago, Sorsina said:

And with the insane spawn rate and how fat the golems are, I don't think ranged classes do all that well there either until 3rd job.

yea sure, tell that to lvl 5x range classes doing fog daily mate, leaving other training maps mostly empty of range classes

6 hours ago, Sorsina said:

Perfectly flat maps are boring and have massive balance issues.

Perfectly layered maps are boring too, mate did u forget how FOG drops (gfa/tobi/thief glove/hat) r worth multiple times better than Coolies drops? also fog is so easy to reach via dropping down different maps compared to walking to coolies or spending mesos on deadmine scrolls

[Sorsina]

All I know is it's difficult.  I've usually only seen high levels there, and I think the only reason lv 5x (aside from warriors) go there is to piggy back off of a nice party with buffs.

That said, sounds like maybe FoG just needs a nerfing more than fixing coolies.  Also, I've made lots of money at coolies.  🙃

[SomeGuy]

17 hours ago, opman said:

yea sure, tell that to lvl 5x range classes doing fog daily mate, leaving other training maps mostly empty of range classes

Perfectly layered maps are boring too, mate did u forget how FOG drops (gfa/tobi/thief glove/hat) r worth multiple times better than Coolies drops? also fog is so easy to reach via dropping down different maps compared to walking to coolies or spending mesos on deadmine scrolls

 

Just now, Sorsina said:

All I know is it's difficult.  I've usually only seen high levels there, and I think the only reason lv 5x (aside from warriors) go there is to piggy back off of a nice party with buffs.

That said, sounds like maybe FoG just needs a nerfing more than fixing coolies.  Also, I've made lots of money at coolies.  🙃

You have to keep in mind that cleric and priests do not need to consume much if zero amount of MP/HP potions while training at coolies or any undead mobs. We may not get great drops, but at the same time, we do not need to consume pots. So we make messes in end from drops. IMHO, of course.

[SomeGuy]

After thinking about this topic for a while, I have decided that what Phoenix needs is time to prove itself to be reliable and not going under anytime soon. I came from other servers, which have great promises, went under for a reason or two. Hoping that Phoenix staff keep the server running... I am a software dev student (well, devs are technically always a student..) so I have some idea how much effort needs to be put in and time - so I just want to thank them for it.

Edited September 10, 2020 by SomeGuy