The future of Phoenix

[Kradia]

I chose to write this because I am concerned about where we are headed past v52, the lack of clarification us players are given and finally, the constant lack of players. My intention with this topic is to hopefully encourage the staff for better communication, ask for a clearer roadmap for where we are headed in terms of game updates and to share my suggestions on how to attract more players to Phoenix. With my suggestions, I will share my vision for where Phoenix should be heading. Feel free to disagree.

1. Communication
It's essential to have clear communication with a playerbase for the players to feel up-to-date, safe, but also cared for. For Phoenix, communication has always been lacking and especially lack of clarification on very important subjects that will make or break the server for players. "Are we eventually getting 4th job?" is one of those questions that has been memed into oblivion. For players like myself, the answer to this question is game defining. Other examples are, when things don't work as planned - which I will first praise you for, this rarely happens. But with the Leafre patch, we were required to download a second Phoenix.dll file. However, there were still players running the old one, which basically makes the game unplayable. These things need to be communicated better. Perhaps a reminder in #announcements on Discord or a news post just for this Phoenix.dll file would do wonders. An in-game notification or a Discord bot reminding players to update to the latest files, when such things happen could also be a solution to this.

I know Arnah is just another memer, probably around our age and I appreciate how casual he is with the playerbase. But clarifying certain things would take the edge off of a lot of our concerns and/or issues and even new players joining Phoenix. This isn't a one man job and I don't know who else is staff, but if man power is an issue, perhaps there should be staff members for these things?

2. Phoenix Roadmap
First of all, I realize that the about page is sort of a roadmap for Phoenix. But we need to know what the vision of Phoenix is. The about page states: "The goal of Phoenix is to provide a challenging 3rd job server with new content constantly releasing." I interpret this as the vision of Phoenix and I personally hope that this doesn't change. Again, with the lack of clarification regarding many of the questions we've asked, I have no idea what to expect anymore. I guess this section ties into first section a lot.

3. Playerbase growth and retention
I have voiced some of these concerns and suggestions regarding this topic multiple times to Arnah directly. I'd like to share some of the things I have suggested. I will discuss several topics that indirectly affect the playerbase growth and player retention.

- 3.1 Playerbase growth and retention: Catering to Casuals
I firmly believe, if we ever want to see player numbers in the several hundreds, that changes should be made to cater to the casual players more. Advertising Phoenix as a vanilla 1x/1x/1x server is not a good thing for the server. It's really bad. Look at it from a casual player's perspective. There is no doubt in my mind, that those players instantly close down the window and look for other alternatives. Even though I personally love this kind of game, I can recognize and I realize that changes need to be made to attract more players. Also, I realize with patches, the game only gets easier. Unfortunately, there is a stigma around 1x/1x/1x rates and that will forever remain unchanged. "Vanilla MapleStory" simply just doesn't have enough appeal - especially as a private server.

Part of catering to casual players could be carefully buffing content where casual players usually get stuck or lose drive to play. Things like KPQ, Levels 30-35, LPQ and OPQ.

- 3.2 Playerbase growth and retention: Temporarily stop updating with vanilla Horntail (V52) and focus on finding solutions to underlying issues that plague the game

• Leeching
• Buff mules
• Powercreep

Some of these have been taken too far, for far too long. Leeching should've never been a thing. Buff mules shouldn't have been a thing, but you don't want to take away the players' efforts leveling their characters. Buff mules singlehandedly discourage new people to play Phoenix. I have previously suggested multiple possible solutions for this, to not take away from the people buff muling and still encourage more party play. Powercreep is another thing slowly creeping into the game where previous content is almost entirely replaced with new content. These subjects deserve a forum thread of their own, so I guess I'll come back to this eventually.

- 3.3 Playerbase growth and retention: Defining existing content, the state of Leafre & endgame content

Once issues listed in 3.2 are dealt with, return to updating the game but time skip. There is no reason to add Nihal Desert and Magatia. "Alternate content" that Nexon released was never really alternate content, but "bloat" content that inevitably replaces old with new and makes the old content irrelevant. The best example of this is Mu Lung and Straw Target Dummies replacing everything from level 40-70. Or the most heartbreaking one for me personally, the Aqua patch almost making Ludibrium entirely useless.

This is why, I'd personally love to see many alterations to the game. For the older content, for certain scrolls to be added, which could be exclusive to the mobs that are no longer being hunted. For the higher level content, it would be awesome with some custom stuff done for Leafre. I am speaking for all other classes, but my own. Hermits do just fine at Leafre already. Allowing other classes to grind there indirectly buffs hermits and that is enough. Because of the lack of NLC potions, lack of damage, etc., Leafre is simply unsustainable except for very few classes. 

Here is a personal anecdote. MapleEurope had Leafre with 3rd job only. The reason why it was working out just fine for us on EMS back in the day, is very obviously because we had NLC potions, not to mention Ciders from Showa. After observing how the Phoenix playerbase has been handling Leafre, I can tell that people already feel very discouraged to go there after getting their gear upgrades. I am not proposing to add NLC potions in regular fashion, but something has to be done to make Leafre a bit easier and sustainable.

Here are a few ideas I have been discussing with players:

• Creating a custom Leafre exchange quest that rewards you with potions a lot (Untradeable NLC pots?)
• Reducing Mob HP and damage of deeper Leafre mobs (not EXP values because this would buff F/P)
• Additional scrolls that come with V56

Finally, when Leafre is in a better state and hopefully outscales Gobies, then would be the time to look towards more endgame content. A custom Temple of Time and Pink Bean that obviously should outscale Leafre. With this, you will have a fully defined and "complete" 3rd job server.

- 3.4 Playerbase growth and retention: Conclusion

That concludes my views on what could be done to keep players interested, as well as attract new players to play Phoenix. Attracting more players also deserves a thread on its own, because there is just so much that could be done. Because everything is sort of tied together and connected, it's hard to keep certain topics seperate. I did my best to stay on topic and focus on the main points, but there are so many angles at play.

With that being said, feel free to discuss! Share your thoughts, opinions and disagree with me if you need to.

Edited February 11, 2021 by Kradia

[Yaoi]

 

5 hours ago, Kradia said:

Here are a few ideas I have been discussing with players:

• Creating a custom Leafre exchange quest that rewards you with potions a lot (Untradeable NLC pots?)
• Reducing Mob HP and damage of deeper Leafre mobs (not EXP values because this would buff F/P)
• Additional scrolls that come with V56

 

I wouldn't be against a Leafre exchange quest for pots, however the mesos you get from NPCing a stack of deep Leafre mobs ETC's is quite a bit already. (~42k)
 

I don't agree with reducing mob HP / damage. The way I see it is that you're supposed to be losing mesos to get your best EXP rates. Gobies just made most players used to making bank while getting the best EXP in the game. Dragon's nest / Peak will definitely out-scale gobies EXP wise eventually, if they haven't already. Even if it's only a slight EXP increase over gobies it will add up. Also, nerfing the damage of the mobs is a pretty significant buff to F/P. This would just enable lower level ones to train in Deep Leafre.

 

+1 for additional scrolls
More scrolls would certainly incentivize more play-time. Personally, I'm at a point where it's extremely difficult to upgrade my equips any further & I know some others who are in the same situation. 

 

 

Edit: 4th job when?

Edit: Pyogo mushroom when? 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2021 by Yaoi

[Arnah]

On 2/11/2021 at 1:35 AM, Kradia said:

"Are we eventually getting 4th job?" is one of those questions that has been memed into oblivion

I'm at the point where I think 4th job would be required eventually if Phoenix continued adding content after a certain point. I don't know when that would be though.

Edit: Obviously If it was added I wouldn't allow issues existing with 4th to get added and 4th here wouldn't be comparable to other servers.
Another Edit: I don't think it'll be needed anytime soon, nor do I confirm if it'll actually ever be required. I'll re-evaluate this opinion far into the future.

On 2/11/2021 at 1:35 AM, Kradia said:

But with the Leafre patch, we were required to download a second Phoenix.dll file. However, there were still players running the old one, which basically makes the game unplayable. These things need to be communicated better. Perhaps a reminder in #announcements on Discord or a news post just for this Phoenix.dll file would do wonders

This was definitely an issue and it would have been better handled if the rewrited Patcher which had plans for easy hotfixes for the Phoenix.dll was not put on indefinite hold when a 'fix' was found for the issue most people had with nexons original patcher.
A post was made in #announcements but like most things it wasn't given a tag.
A edit to the v50 patchnotes with [Updated xx] title was done for the "news post". Not best way but it was partially done.
And I keep forgetting to put it as a slide message at the top of peoples screens for awhile(Which I will do in a bit now that I'm reminded)

 

On 2/11/2021 at 1:35 AM, Kradia said:

I realize that the about page is sort of a roadmap for Phoenix. But we need to know what the vision of Phoenix is

The quote you are mentioning is definitely the goal/vision. With Phoenix I am just trying to update the game through the versions similar to how Nexon did it back in 2005 to where it is now. Obviously, I have no plans to do it for 15 years like Nexon but that is the plan. Just update 1by1 like Nexon.

For Roadmap it's about as confirmed as I know right now other then me wanting to release pirates.

On 2/11/2021 at 1:35 AM, Kradia said:

Leeching should've never been a thing. Buff mules shouldn't have been a thing

I agree. Not too sure why update pausing would need to happen as it just needs a proper discussions for fixes which can then be implemented & tested in under a month.

On 2/11/2021 at 1:35 AM, Kradia said:

For the older content, for certain scrolls to be added, which could be exclusive to the mobs that are no longer being hunted.

Drops are definitely a good reason to enable choosing between areas to train at. Also some slight spawn changes possibly.

On 2/11/2021 at 1:35 AM, Kradia said:

but something has to be done to make Leafre a bit easier and sustainable.

I'm probably more on nerfing(haha i only nerf) a spot that is just 'better' than leafre rather than adjusting leafre.
Also like you said, other content like showa can also make Leafre easier.

On 2/11/2021 at 3:32 AM, Yaoi said:

Pyogo mushroom when? 

Maybe soon

[opman]

I feel like leafre is meant to be a mesos sink area for most jobs, where it'd be nice for players go to leafre to train after lv 140, hunt lv100 weapons (well all except claw and some others currently) and the materials to craft a lv110 weap. maybe once all lv100 weapons r made available for a couple of months, we could buff the materials slightly for the upgrade to lv110 as it drives incentive for gear progression. As it should be, gear progression has a limit on what seems nostalgic and feasible for a 3rd job like server.

if we ever go into 4th job, we'd be competing w the likes of the top 2 4th job servers which will not do us well since we're vanilla like rates. There's another thread on increasing playerbase, good points were raised but anyway a 1x rate server doesnt sound enticing at all for potential newcomers

[Sandz]

4th job

I'd rather have no future content rather than 4th job being added, in fact I'd instantly leave the server and I know a lot of people feel the same way.
The dream would be to have downscaled content so it's viable for 3rd job. 
The biggest problem with adding new content without 4th job is that F/P scale better of higher hp/exp than other jobs.
But I don't think balancing the game around F/P is the right choice. I think it's more important to balance the content around all the other jobs.
Then look at F/P afterwards if they require nerfs or changes.

Leafre

With current damage in deep Leafre monsters. There will never be a point where it's worth doing for a DK or I'd assume any melee job.
Even though at some levels with certain damage breakpoints when maps like peak do give better exp than gobi. The increase is at most around 5-10% exp.
While the cost of grinding is around 5m/h (taking into account the mesos you make at gobi and how much you lose at peak).
These numbers will never be worth. So in my opinion something has to be done to sustainability for melee jobs.
And as I stated earlier I dont mind if the change benefits F/P aswell. I just wanna be able to grind at new content without feeling like
im wasting my mesos.

This could be solved in a number of ways. Either through % hp pots that are more accessible and cheaper than elixirs.
Or by changing the exp split between priest/attacker so that it'd worthwhile for the priest to follow an attacker around.

Im all in favour of leafre being a meso sink. But currently it's meso suicide.
I don't think nerfing gobi would make leafre more desirable for melee jobs. It would probably just make everyone quit or reroll into sins or F/P.
No one wants to spend 2-4m/h to get decent rates.

[Paint]

In Leafre I struggle to get anything close to gobys. Saders are only good in this meta because hitting 6 gobys with coma increases our damage output a ton. If gobys gets nerfed I don't see any other viable training spot that compares with others for saders. Mobbing is rough in Leafre because of our short range and most mobs having insane ranged attacks. Personally if my already limited options are nerfed/taken away from me I will reroll. It's not worth going through hell for a class that nobody cares about.

[dugtrio]

2 hours ago, Sandz said:

This could be solved in a number of ways. Either through % hp pots that are more accessible and cheaper than elixirs.
Or by changing the exp split between priest/attacker so that it'd worthwhile for the priest to follow an attacker around.

while i agree with you with everything before and past this sentence, i would like to add that % hp pots would only benefit melee classes that have a larger hp pool, if we take cb for example it would make close to no difference in meso costs while grinding in deep leafre  mobs.
what cb lacks in  leafre is just damage while using band of thieves , it doesnt do as near as other mobbing skills and u can really feel it in leafre with the high defense/hp of the mobs.
and theres not really a map the fits meso explosion as well as gobys is in leafre, making it kind of a useless skill in leafre
i think theres a few things that need to be changed in leafre to help the melee classes out, if its adding %hp pots, new scroll options or mob hp reduction.
 

[Alucard]

Arnold got good grasp of the things.

His reply gave me extremely negative vibes.. I want to be lvl 120 chief bandit one day not a shadower i can do that somewhere else. 
Why not run the show for 15 years as long as donos are enough to pay server fees and Arnah gets his paycut?

How-to-remove-mules:
Give default hs-xp to parties and give all mules job change that want it, problem solved they get to keep their xp and no more mules. Ban mules in rules.

Now I feel more confused than ever before for whatever reason, I shall trust in the developers vision for the first time in my life.

 

[Yaoi]

20 hours ago, Arnah said:

I'm at the point where I think 4th job would be required eventually if Phoenix continued adding content after a certain point. I don't know when that would be though.

Edit: Obviously If it was added I wouldn't allow issues existing with 4th to get added and 4th here wouldn't be comparable to other servers.

 

I've never wanted 4th, hell I've never even played as 4th job so it's not nostalgic to me whatsoever. However, I'm also thinking that it's going to be necessary for the server. Adjusted like you mentioned, of course. 

[Bellocringe]

Solution to the F/P mage problem: cap poison damage at 1

 

 

Also, I don't care too much either way regarding the 4th job lite possibility, but I think one of the main draws of Phoenix is that it is a slightly more masochistic version of the old maple, and no 4th job in places where 4th job is classically required fits that bill pretty good. If it weren't for how broken poison is as a mechanic, I would think that the only necessary requirement to release new content in a 3rd job setting would be to reduce new mobs' damage to follow a more linear path, so that the tougher mobs are at least manageable as damage sponges instead of damage sponge + meso drain, which just flat out makes them not worth it in most circumstances.

[Kradia]

1 hour ago, Yaoi said:

I've never wanted 4th, hell I've never even played as 4th job so it's not nostalgic to me whatsoever. However, I'm also thinking that it's going to be necessary for the server. Adjusted like you mentioned, of course. 

I have been around the private server community since its inception. I definitely do not think 4th job is necessary. In fact, Phoenix being 3rd job only is the biggest selling point. It's the single most unique aspect of Phoenix that differentiates itself from all other servers that have ever been around. Nobody has done 3rd job only with later "old school" GMS content. Except Maple Beta, but that server doesn't count because it's so underground.

If you look at it from the average Mapler's perspective, there is no way they would choose a real 1x rate 4th job server over the big two. Yes, there are are more factors at play, like server stability, no p2w done right, less powercreep through items, etc., but players first judge a server based on the EXP rates and player count.

I chose Phoenix over any other server, because of the server being limited to 3rd job only. If I wanted to play a 4th job server, I would've went to Legends, which is a way more attractive 4th job server than Phoenix would be.

21 hours ago, Arnah said:

Edit: Obviously If it was added I wouldn't allow issues existing with 4th to get added and 4th here wouldn't be comparable to other servers.

Other servers have tried fixing the issues that come with 4th job. I believe without a doubt that your version of 4th job would be better than the other attempts, but you're still going to have the already existing issues, like why would anyone choose 1x rates over other rates, when GMS/EMS wasn't even as hardcore as Phoenix is. You're not going to agree with this Arnah, but GMS/EMS or any of the other services for that matter, weren't really 1x because of EXP/drop cards, events and everything in-between. Committing to 4th job makes Phoenix directly comparable with other 4th job servers, while staying 3rd job, you're appealing to another market of players.

Edit:

Instead, let's customize future content to fit 3rd job better. It's a LOT of work, but that would be truly interesting and appealing for newer players. But first, it's time to properly put effort into fixing the already existing issues within the game.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Kradia

[manfroy]

9 hours ago, Sandz said:

Either through % hp pots that are more accessible and cheaper than elixirs.
 

 

those are literally nlc pots my d00d

kradia making arnald think about the hard stuff now i wonder how it will go

my brain is too small and my experiences too few to make any good calls/suggestion for server, i just want khanjar and dragon khanjar

Edited February 14, 2021 by manfroy

[Yaoi]

1 hour ago, Bellocringe said:

Solution to the F/P mage problem: cap poison damage at 1

I like how as soon as Leafre drops F/P mage is a "problem". However the nearly 2 years of DK dominance was barely even mentioned. Yes, it will be broken in the future if the server remains third job (will be in quite a few updates) and releases even further content but as of Leafre the EXP difference is basically the same as DK vs F/P in favor of the DK pre-Leafre. That's just the unbalanced game we play, though. 

I think even with say a 30% damage decrease on monsters it will still be quite the pot burn for warriors, which still won't make it worth it to them.. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Yaoi

[Kradia]

1 hour ago, Yaoi said:

I like how as soon as Leafre drops F/P mage is a "problem".

That's because there are several underlying issues with F/P mages. They scale depending on the EXP values the mobs have and don't have the natural progression like every other class does. F/P mages are an outlier, therefore an issue. A DK being OP is dependent on the content available. Whereas only EXP values/channels determine what experience F/P mages gain.


I drew this to make my point clear. It's exaggarated and obviously not based on data, but that's probably somewhat how the graphs would look. 

So yes I'd agree, in conclusion I would say F/P mages are a problem.

"But misting is very expensive.." well, so are Dragon Knights or any other classes for that matter.

Edit: The fact that F/P mages gain so much EXP in a solo setting is absurd. For all other classes, partying is a necessity to gain good EXP. You boot up 3 clients and play a singleplayer game, yet you still gain more than others. If that's not an issue, I don't know what is.

Edited February 14, 2021 by Kradia

[Yaoi]

39 minutes ago, Kradia said:

That's because there are several underlying issues with F/P mages. They scale depending on the EXP values the mobs have and don't have the natural progression like every other class does. F/P mages are an outlier, therefore an issue. A DK being OP is dependent on the content available. Whereas only EXP values/channels determine what experience F/P mages gain.

"But misting is very expensive.." well, so are Dragon Knights or any other classes for that matter.

Edit: The fact that F/P mages gain so much EXP in a solo setting is absurd. For all other classes, partying is a necessity to gain good EXP. You boot up 3 clients and play a singleplayer game, yet you still gain more than others. If that's not an issue, I don't know what is.

I completely understand and respect your opinion. I personally just can't see it as a problem myself for obvious reasons. Thanks for the chart. Smile. 

Edit: Nice chart. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Yaoi

[Bellocringe]

12 hours ago, Yaoi said:

I like how as soon as Leafre drops F/P mage is a "problem". However the nearly 2 years of DK dominance was barely even mentioned. Yes, it will be broken in the future if the server remains third job (will be in quite a few updates) and releases even further content but as of Leafre the EXP difference is basically the same as DK vs F/P in favor of the DK pre-Leafre. That's just the unbalanced game we play, though. 

I think even with say a 30% damage decrease on monsters it will still be quite the pot burn for warriors, which still won't make it worth it to them.. 

Haha, don't worry, I understand that Maple is not and never will be a balanced game unless everything is homogenized to the point of current day maple. I don't think there is anything intrinsically wrong with the unique nature of poison until it starts to exceed what is possible with any other class without requiring any gear. I know current day maple solves the problem by making the DoT based off of your attack instead of the enemy's hp, which also allows it into a bossing setting, but that just leads to that homogenization road. It's just as it stands future stronger mobs like ToT enemies will be almost flat out impossible for classes that are not f/p mages, since they will be the only ones scaling appropriately.

I picked f/p specifically for that unique trait though, so I personally hope it will just stay the way it is 😋

[Sandz]

I just wanna farm new content without killing my bank, unless I could get significantly better rates. Which is impossible with current HP to EXP values and our damage scaling with gear/levels.
And with later content only being harder something has to be done for jobs that are tanking the damage if you want them to grind in later content than gobi.
And this could only be done by nerfing the damage / hp or giving better sustain through pots or damage reduction through gear or possibly levels.
Or by giving us more damage which I don't want. This is essentailly what 4th job would do even if it is a rebalanced 4th job.

 

I think F/P getting better rates than other jobs is not a problem. But I can see why it's bothering a lot of people.
If we compare what the rates used to be before Leafre (MB if I get some of these wrong).
I believe Yaoi was getting around 3.8m/h. While with a optimized gobi pt with the highest level player my best EXP test was 5.5m/H (Usually it would be around 5m or less)
This would mean I was getting about 45% more EXP than Yaoi. With Yaoi's current rates at I believe 7.5m/H.
Yaoi is getting only 36% more than I am. But the "problem" is that Yaoi can just log in and start grinding while I have to rely on other people to get my best rates.
If I had an average pt at gobi my rates would instead be around 4.5m/h. If we compare the rates again.
I got 18% more exp pre Leafre and Yaoi is getting 67% more after Leafre.

Now if we add on that F/P basically get their power as soon as they max mist, while at the gobi parties that get the best rates everyone is over 14x and have incredible EQ.
I think it makes sense why some people think this is a problem.

Personally I don't care. I just want to be able to experience the new content but as I already said with current monster damage I'll never scale to the point where it's worthwhile for me to go to deep Leafre.

 

Edit: Another thing to consider with F/P is that they'll never out dps an attacker on bosses. So in my opinion it's perfectly fine that they get the best rates.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Sandz

[Monto]

Making changes of skills might actually help a bit in this situation, not speaking of custom changes but actual changes that occurs, for example check the changes for CB's comparing actuall skill vs BBB.hidden-street skill.

[doug]

nice

 

[Phantom]

On 2/11/2021 at 12:35 AM, Kradia said:

"Vanilla MapleStory" simply just doesn't have enough appeal - especially as a private server.

Different strokes for different folks. Maybe for you "Vanilla Maplestory" is boring and lame. For me it's appealing, because I play for nostalgic reasons. Playing pre-BB maplestory is like comfort food for me. I'm not looking for exciting new custom content or meta-changing game tweaks, I'm looking to relive my childhood. Obviously there will be people who think like you, and then there will be others who think like me.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with any particular game tweak or custom content suggestions you made. Some of them are probably worthy and needed. What I'm disagreeing with is your assertion that vanilla maple turns people off and is a major reason why this server has problem attracting new players. That's completely wrong. The #1 and #2 servers are basically nostalgia servers with minimal changes from vanilla. They have thousands of people online right now.

Biggest reason I see for this server's low population is that it's freaking hard. It's harder to level here than GMS back in 2008. It's actually even worse than a pure 1x clone of GMS, because our equipment is worse here than GMS of the same version (no equip that comes out of gacha, no dark scrolls, etc).  And in GMS people used to buy 2x exp coupons. It was not rare at all, me and my friends used to get 2x coupons all the time. And of course the GM would hold 2x events regularly.

I don't think anything can be done about this, Arnah seems dead set on creating a hardcore, hard-to-level server with crappy equip. So as far as that's concerned, it's not gonna change.

What *CAN* be done to attract more players is advertising. Paid advertising works. Google is worth a trillion dollars because of this fact.  I've seen private servers zoom up in GTOP rankings and attract hundreds of new players because the server owner strategically placed paid ads.

I wouldn't mind if Arnah created more donator perks to get more people to donate, if he uses that money to buy advertising for the server. Everyone loves chairs, I wouldn't mind paying US Dollars to get some cool chairs that I used to have in GMS back in the day. If pay-to-win is a big concern, you could make the chairs untradeable.

These are the 2 chairs that I used to have that I remember the most. Palm Tree chair was a reward anyone could get by doing Ariant PQ. The Maple Tree chair I don't remember how I got it.

Edited February 16, 2021 by Phantom

[Arnah]

On 2/12/2021 at 10:36 PM, Arnah said:

Another Edit: I don't think it'll be needed anytime soon, nor do I confirm if it'll actually ever be required. I'll re-evaluate this opinion far into the future.

Just going to add this here too since some have asked about time estimations for 4th and general outcry over an opinion I have.
I see no reason to do it pre-pirates(Assuming that ever happens), and even then that seems super early and is likely not be required for much longer after Pirate release(if ever in the servers lifespan). Seems like I gave my opinion way too early and people took it very seriously.

 

Some skill changes are probably nice to add since we don't have 4th. Would help fill in the gap of nothing really changing with a job other then where it can train.

 

4 hours ago, Phantom said:

(no equip that comes out of gacha, no dark scrolls, etc)

Most good equips that come out of gacha are introduced later anyway. Like BWG, 90, 100, 110 weapons.
Just a few things like adventurer cape, some boots, and couple other things that are missing which usually just shoved attack on random equips, or in some cases a couple base stats.
Clear outlier is definitely the scrolls.

 

Could do chairs for NX but it would be the unaccessible untradeable ones. Not sure about this idea currently.

[Phantom]

13 hours ago, Arnah said:

Most good equips that come out of gacha are introduced later anyway. Like BWG, 90, 100, 110 weapons.

Just a few things like adventurer cape, some boots, and couple other things that are missing which usually just shoved attack on random equips, or in some cases a couple base stats.
Clear outlier is definitely the scrolls.

Mostly, yeah... however there were some gacha items that were very helpful that came out early (I think early 2007), like brown bandana.  +5 to 7 free accuracy is a huge deal to warriors.

Just to simplify my previous wall of text:  Buff mules do not reduce the playerbase. If that were the case, the R-server would have 50 players online. In reality they have 2500 players online right now, I just checked.

I'm not in favor of buff mules, I would probably be happier if buff mules disappeared. But that has nothing to do with this server having few players. It's a completely different topic.

Also all the complaints about game balance and the tweaks and changes that the OP wants... they may be valid and perfectly good suggestions. However none of that has anything to do with the server's low population. You guys are lumping together two different topics into one.  The popular servers with thousands of players have even bigger game balance issues and problems. It's not reducing their playerbase.  So please, keep the game balance issue and the low playerbase issue separate.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Phantom

[RexZet]

I don't under the mentality that new players are turned off coz of mules. I can tell you even more players are turned off because of lack of mules especially more casual players. Its hard to always get the buff you need in a ps much less one with a small population. Being able to make your own at least like haste/rage mules (not as difficult as hs help a lot.

Idk why you all act like if mules disappeared there be active players to fill in those roles which I can tell you right now there won't be.

And server low population is simply because its too grindy. I get that's what lot of the core players want but you also have to face the fact that most others players don't. If you're ok with a very small population of just the core people sure y a its fine as it is. But if you actually want a player base beside just the several people you know then it can't be this grindy simple as that. Simply not possible to have both, this isn't 2007.

[Richard]

Not sure if anyone reads forums nowadays but I would like to share my 2cents for this matter.

I truly believe before we move on to adding content we should focus on catering to our player base/new players.  Over the last few months the population has never exceeded 50 to my knowledge. 

4th job? new map? mules? leeching? These are good ideas because there's no right or wrong answers. Most of the people that play Maplestory private servers now are players from the 2000's era when Maplestory was in fact, like phoenix right now, 1x vanilla. But below its popularity was the community. it was the exchange of words, the adventure, and the bonding between players that made this game truly unique to its players. 

3rd job vanilla is in fact the strongest selling point for Phoenix as Kradia said above, I think this should stay as is. What I suggest is either make the server 2x exp or do occasional 2x events for "x" amount of hours so that the casuals can join and have a feel of the game. What keeps the casuals away is the 1x exp aspect of the server. With occasional or permanent 2x people will be more willing to try the server because 2x is same as Maplelegends across the street. With other private servers filled with 4th job and even 5th job from GMS, phoenix advertising its 3rd job only will be putting something new in the sea of private servers. Other than that adding chairs and more cosmetics would be  beneficial. Maybe dropping gachapon tickets (from mobs) that you can trade in for scrolls (10/60/100%'s) and chairs. This is pretty important because this will provide low level players a way to make income and motivation to train.  Later on people will naturally cave to PQ's because its cost effective and provide scrolls. When we have secured player base we can add more pq's like pirate pq, romeo and juliet pq, etc. in the future. We just need something people can chew on to play the server.

What keeps a game afloat is the player base, any major changes like new maps or allowing mules or multi-clienting comes after. For the record, not allowing leech and multiclienting was a great move and it should stay as is. And I strongly encourage the admin to consider the possibility of chairs and cosmetics if not the gach drop.

Thank you for reading,

 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Richard

[Andrew_Anonymous]

On 2/12/2021 at 11:36 PM, Arnah said:

I'm at the point where I think 4th job would be required eventually if Phoenix continued adding content after a certain point. I don't know when that would be though.

Edit: Obviously If it was added I wouldn't allow issues existing with 4th to get added and 4th here wouldn't be comparable to other servers.
Another Edit: I don't think it'll be needed anytime soon, nor do I confirm if it'll actually ever be required. I'll re-evaluate this opinion far into the future.

 

Could we get a definitive statement on the matter of 4th job... please? I'm going to have a lot of time in my life in the near future and I'm wanting to give Phoenix a serious try. 3rd or 4th job effects my class selection dramatically. It's been 2 years Arnah, give your players an answer.