The future of Phoenix

[tyys]

On 2/13/2021 at 6:36 AM, Arnah said:

I'm at the point where I think 4th job would be required eventually if Phoenix continued adding content after a certain point. I don't know when that would be though.

Edit: Obviously If it was added I wouldn't allow issues existing with 4th to get added and 4th here wouldn't be comparable to other servers.
Another Edit: I don't think it'll be needed anytime soon, nor do I confirm if it'll actually ever be required. I'll re-evaluate this opinion far into the future.

Hello Arnah,

with the recent update to ToT and the significant changes to the Gameplay (mules, party exp , HS) it appears to be the correct time to discuss these inherent flawed game structures again.

It is obviuos that certain content is simply impossible to farm for certain classes due to sustainability issues. (I can gather data if this is uncertain....)
- road of regrest 5 - mob lvl 116 - lvl 14x priest - 420k meso looted - 180 PE Usage [per Hour]

- road of regrest 5 - mob lvl 116 -lvl 16x hermit - 394 ice pops - 750k meso looted (having a 34,7% hitrate). adjusted for avoidability of other classes that would lead to a usage of 1021 ice pops, adjusted for alchemist and assuming 1hp = 1 meso, thats a cost of 3,06M / H.

The community fixes those issues by simply avoiding the unplayable content and migrating to content that allows a heavy reduction of HP potion usage (C guards, anego, goby, Himes etc.) or just quit the game.
In the past due to HB it was sustainable for priests and hemits to essentially grind for free in Skellies. Thats also the reasons those are the only classes that actually bothered to grind there. Melee classes and DKs would simply not grind unless they have a priest or a pocket mules priest.

There are different possible solutions to this problem:

- trivial solution (revert everything) - stale endgame, i kinda dislike this because that game was just dead

- Adding % NLC potions. Since you had the standpoint that you dont want to implement this solution (%pots) I would encourage you to think about this once again. I dont see a valid reason to believe that this would break the game. It would simply allow all classes to finally grind endgame maps without getting entirely butchered to the ground. Considering it costs 4.66k to repot 100% hp or mp and the above stated costs this would not indicate a break of the game. I think loosing the PE / Elix market or having a forced drop of those prices is a reasonable sacrifice to make. On top of that ppl can already sacrifice exp to excel at meso farming.

- The solution that appears to be quoted in this post at the top. Adding 4th job. If an adjustment for sustainability is out the window the only other change is to drastically increase the mob killing capabilities (assuming mobs will not drop 5k bags...) to cover for the opportunity cost being hit by the monsters constantly.

 

BR tyys

Edited June 10, 2023 by tyys

[manfroy]

21 hours ago, tyys said:

- Adding % NLC potions. Since you had the standpoint that you dont want to implement this solution (%pots) I would encourage you to think about this once again. I dont see a valid reason to believe that this would break the game. It would simply allow all classes to finally grind endgame maps without getting entirely butchered to the ground. Considering it costs 4.66k to repot 100% hp or mp and the above stated costs this would not indicate a break of the game. I think loosing the PE / Elix market or having a forced drop of those prices is a reasonable sacrifice to make. On top of that ppl can already sacrifice exp to excel at meso farming.

 

nlc pot this nlc pot that,

why the hell has arnah not tried just reducing the purchase costs of npc potions by a significant margin, like .6-.7 meso per hp healed instead of the vanilla approximate cost of 1.1 meso to 1 hp.an example would be the red potion going from 50 meso per to 30 or 35 meso per potion. It seems like a small change, but it saves a significant amount of meso in the long term. something similar can be done for mp potions too, but this feels less neccessary, especially when mages already rely on elixirs to train.
nlc pots are a literal band-aid fix that goes TOO far aside from honsters and mana bulls imo . def not a popular opinion but nlc potions are basically BiS, you literally use nothing else once you can afford them. let elixirs and power elixirs remain as the "BiS" healing potion for classes with extremely large hp and mp pools, while letting the lower level potions be affordable and usable for characters with more modest hp/mp pools. de-valuing elixirs/ powers would also remove a not insignificant meso sink.

Edited June 11, 2023 by manfroy