increasing slots for mages

[dugtrio]

with increased slot count on high level gloves/boots , mages dont get any sort of benefit out of this
increasing slots for their high lvl overalls and weapons would benefit mages and would encourage them to go low luk instead of lukless
lvl 78/88 overall = 1 extra slot
lvl 98 overall = 2 extra slots

lvl 80/90 wand/staff = 1 extra slot
lvl 100 wand/staff = 2 extra slots

[sewil]

+1 making mage equips viable seems like a good idea. i think that level 80+ equipments designed for a particular job in mind should be better than a level 30 common overall and a level 43 anniversary weapon

Edited June 29, 2021 by sewil

[KDOT]

+1

I think it's a decent idea because it doesn't really buff mages just a step towards making luk gear viable.

[Arnah]

Pushing all jobs to get away from secondary stat-less would be nice.

Not entirely sure if this is the best option but I am open to discussion around this topic to get more opinions and ideas.

[Bellocringe]

If 1 luk was also worth 1 magic attack that would eliminate the statless dominance for mages instantly. Of course it would also be a pretty big buff, but maybe there's some lower magic attack value that would be a good way to close the gap without eliminating lukless builds entirely. I really don't like just npcing high level mage gear because of how useless it is. 

[sewil]

I made a thread about LUKless mages a while ago where I gave some ideas on solutions. One was to buff the stats on the LUK-required equips which is what OP proposed in this thread. Another was to change the MP gain formula so that it's dependent on current level rather than total INT. This of course makes no difference in damage but it removes just another reason to go LUKless. Kradia also suggested in that thread to strip the LUK requirements completely from the armor, but not the weapons, so you would use the armor to get enough LUK to equip a high-level weapon. I'd have to run the formula to check but I think just staying LUKless and equipping high-level INT armor would still give you more damage in this scenario (plus higher MaxMP). Another solution Bello suggested in that thread was to lower the LUK requirement on weapons.

Of all of these solutions I think the simplest and most elegant is to buff the end-game equips with more slots. Mages would start out LUKless, gaining the extra MaxMP, and then like 70+ they'd start increasing LUK for the high-level equips.

[Bellocringe]

The main reason I don't think slots on mage stuff is all that enticing is simply because the matk formula is hollow compared to watk classes. Consider how big the gap between an 11 atk 5 stat glove and 14 atk 8 stat glove is. Adding another 2 or 3 slots to mage overalls wouldn't really do much in the grand scheme of things I don't think, because the difference between a 30(!) stat robe with a 70 luk requirement and a 40 stat(!!!) robe with a 90 luk requirement still doesn't add up to the same benefit.

A wand/staff with 2 extra slots adds up to an additional likely 6 matk, which is a straight buff since base matk on wands scales 1:1 with luk requirement increases, but it still pales in comparison to glove upgrades. I think it's an option to consider, at least for the mages who have already pumped enough luk to wear high level robes, but if making luk mage a viable option is the end goal, the easiest point to address is just luk requirements.

This isn't even considering the low probability of ever seeing these perfectly scrolled robes, or the obvious availability issue of said scrolls. GFA is one of the most available scroll types while overall luk/int is one of the least available.

[Kradia]

I think it would be very odd if only mages gain the extra slots on overalls and weapons. Although it does sort of solve the problem late game, it doesn't align with the item design in comparison to the rest of the classes. I have two suggestions for fixing the lukless issue. 

Removing the luk requirement on all armor and promoting scrolling some items for luk would be a better solution. This means making sure not to introduce certain scrolls like helm for int and shield for int. To make up for the loss of these scrolls, custom scrolls could be created like helm for luk. Shield for luk already exists. Gloves for magic att is fine to exist as a direct counterpart to gloves for att. Optionally, creating a shoes for int scroll that only gives magic att* would help as well, because as of now, mages have nothing to scroll shoes for except speed.

* While it might seem odd that a shoes for int scroll would only give magic att, it aligns with the other shoes scrolls that are a little weirdly designed, like shoes for dex doesn't actually give dex but accuracy. Shoes for jump gives dex(why?) and jump. Additionally, magic att is a stat on many mage shoes already.

The other potential solution is changing the int to magic att formula. Currently, 1 int equals 1 magic att. If the conversion of int was changed to 1 int = 0.6 magic att, the lukless issue would be fixed across all levels and all weapons would serve as an upgrade every 10 or so levels. This is because magic att would weigh more, which also makes sense considering your total magic att is calculated in the stats UI. This obviously means that mages would suffer in terms of damage and they would have to be compensated in proper fashion to make up for the loss of all that magic att. This could be done throughout adding additional magic att on all wands and staves.

Optionally, you could make magic att be 1.4x effective because you're taking away 0.4 of the int value. I don't know if this is possible however.

I personally recommend the first suggestion, although it is a bit of work having to create entirely new scrolls. I prefer the first suggestion because of the additional scrolls mages would be able to work with, which I think adds to the fun.

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Kradia

[dugtrio]

8 hours ago, Kradia said:

Removing the luk requirement on all armor and promoting scrolling some items for luk would be a better solution. 

 

correct me if im wrong , but this just means mages would go lukless, but wearing mage armor, it still wont be beneficial to add luk, because the extra magic u get from all the gear and u can still use a lama staff.
lets say theres no luk requirement on mage equips, the luk u would get from all the equips is around 25( not including scrolls, including lv100 oa, lvl 90 boots, lvl 90 gloves and zhelm) , which gets us to 29 base luk , then we would have to add 61 ap to luk instead of int to wear a magicodar, and on average , comparing that to maple lama staff, u lose around 14 magic.
the only scrolls that would benefit this build compared to lukless is luk scrolls (because gloves for magic benefits both builds equally ), luk shield and a customly added helm for luk, which even then its either the same strength as lukless or a tiny bit better.

changing the formula of magic would obviously be the best way to fix it, but it hard to figure out whats the best way to change it.

in my opinion adding some slots to mage gear to equalize the slots being added for other classes is an easier change, and is way more obvious that its better to go luk build at later levels
 

[doug]

+ 1

[Oxyliquiet]

On 7/3/2021 at 12:15 AM, Kradia said:

Currently, 1 int equals 1 magic att. If the conversion of int was changed to 1 int = 0.6 magic att

Optionally, you could make magic att be 1.4x effective because you're taking away 0.4 of the int value. 

This could work depending on how the magic damage calculation is actually done. I don't know if nexon does something weird with INT and/or magic attack in the calculation. Depending on that this could be a great buff or a big nerf.

 

On 7/2/2021 at 2:37 PM, Bellocringe said:

If 1 luk was also worth 1 magic attack that would eliminate the statless dominance for mages instantly. 

I personally like this idea. Maybe not make LUK a 1:1 ratio but if LUK was worth more damage wise i would definitely add LUK mid to late game, which would give mages are similar path as thieves, statwise.

 

On 6/29/2021 at 5:41 PM, dugtrio said:

with increased slot count on high level gloves/boots , mages dont get any sort of benefit out of this
increasing slots for their high lvl overalls and weapons would benefit mages and would encourage them to go low luk instead of lukless
lvl 78/88 overall = 1 extra slot
lvl 98 overall = 2 extra slots

lvl 80/90 wand/staff = 1 extra slot
lvl 100 wand/staff = 2 extra slots

Why stop at extra slots only for mage equips? Why not give all classes extra slots? Yes, it's a big buff for all classes but Horntail is not gonna die on its own 😛

[NixMar]

for me going armor in games usely means more defence stats. i feel in maplestory defence stat dont do that much. i much rather have bonus HP.

i think higher level mage gear should give bonus HP to make them more tankier. this way if u optin for luk mage u lose some dps and gain  survivabilty.

[opman]

3 hours ago, NixMar said:

i think higher level mage gear should give bonus HP to make them more tankier. this way if u optin for luk mage u lose some dps and gain  survivabilty.

maybe u could add this onto here or suggest some rates for whichever tier armor, i personally like a mp and/or hp bonus added to those armors