Anti Leeching

[Arnah]

Currently leeching still very much exists and this has been obvious forever. Just because it is not as effective as in some servers does not mean it doesn't exist. Further prevention of leeching is one of the changes out of a couple that I'm looking to add into Phoenix to improve the future.

 

The plan is to introduce a timer which based on the % of damage dealt of a monster killed will determine the amount of seconds of "leech" you get. The amount of seconds per % of total damage dealt will be configurable per job but is currently at 1 seconds for every job except Beginners at 2 seconds, with a cap of 100 seconds.

Current formula to determine the amount of seconds is below.

ceil(damage / maxHp * 100) * JobMultiplier[jobCategory]

If you do 50% of the mobs health you get 50 seconds of "leeching"

The amount of seconds you get to leech is given to you on mob kill but before exp is handed out.

 

Clerics & Priests have special handling for heal.
Every heal that increases the HP of a party member, but not including yourself, will give 3 seconds of leech with a cap of 20 seconds. This is the same timer used for killing monsters. Healing while above this 20 second cap(From damaging mobs) will not increase the time until it drops below 20 seconds.

 

Players determined afk by this system will not contribute to total member count for Holy Symbol and Party Exp Bonus but will count towards the parties total level which is used for party exp split.
Bosses will increase the leech timer but ignore the active check and distribute exp normally.

 

Lenient with 2 mobs being 100 seconds of leeching. Should be used to determine afk not lazy people but will need to be seen in a real world use case to determine if any values need tweaking.

[Yaoi]

Sure

[opman]

like... what for do this? its 1x lmao

[erectus]

If you implememt this, can you at least make sure that if a priest is actively healing they do not get penalized ? 

[Arnah]

1 hour ago, opman said:

like... what for do this? its 1x lmao

Idk what part of 1x stops leeching but its not working here.

51 minutes ago, erectus said:

If you implememt this, can you at least make sure that if a priest is actively healing they do not get penalized ? 

That's the opposite of what I want to do. But I understand priest would be the one most at risk of getting incorrectly seen as leeching.

[AnalOrgasm]

What about low level aqua priests

[Alucard]

Sure! Not that it was as big issue as some other servers we never got to a point someone was paid for leeching
EDIT: while at it lets remove all mulles and give alternative to get hs buff  if no priest player is willing to play

Edited January 17, 2021 by Alucard

[erectus]

44 minutes ago, Arnah said:

That's the opposite of what I want to do. But I understand priest would be the one most at risk of getting incorrectly seen as leeching.

I understand just making sure i didn't level up a class for nothing. i've played on an anti leeching server and well if you heal you get placed as inactive and aren't part of the xp distribution.

[Lilchubbyken]

😕 i don’t agree. 

[Emperor]

Arnah, we know it's hard server, but don't kill the best server in maple universe, this what make the server alive, it's not easy to get "hs mule" lmao, it's half year of play.

well.. it will hurt active priests that not get any EXP from healing, now you gonna disable the option for them to get EXP from duo with DK in deep ludi or deep aqua? come on, it's not fair.
you should not touch it, it's 1x exp and not 2x, it's not 1.5 \ 1.2 like "old school servers".
i don't agree with that kind of thing.
this is a huge mistake.
priests gonna be stop to begin a thing and will be HS mule only.
and don't make any potion that replace HS skill, like wtf, it's the only way for priests to be available to party, otherwise you can delete priests job from the server.
heal is a thing, but everyone can use potions.
hope you understand.

[Conorrhea]

i think it is incredibly important to tread lightly here. In my months of playing Phoenix i have not noticed leeching to be a problem at all. What is a problem however is the number of active priests; and if this is not implemented correctly then it could seriously fuck us. If a priest is not getting leech exp with a DK what purpose does he have?  To me this seems like a simple; " its not broken; don't fix it " issue but if you are going to tackle it arnah please dont screw the pooch and do it right.

[dugtrio]

what if u use a summon bag to kill a low  lvl mob every 2 minutes, would u get  leech  xp  from other  mobs?  or  you would have to  solo kill a specific mob inorder to get  that  specific's mob leech xp?

[Rykbi]

I’m curious if low lvl priests tagging with heal at deep ludi is considered leeching since they have to be active, and in some cases spam healing plus hs benefits their duo (like dk/priest at mdt).

I understand you could lower the threshold for priest/clerics but it seems like you would have to change it based on undead or not. 
 

I’m also curious what you consider for beginners since they are mainly a meme class. I know I wouldn’t have gotten my beginner so high lvl without leeching her for a handful of levels. Maybe it would make the levels more meaningful for people really grinding it out on beginners, but seems like partying would be pretty useless for them since they do so little damage.
 

Last qualm would be about how it effects party exp, like for party quests. There’s always a few levels where some classes do such low damage, or can’t hit at all that they would most likely be shafted in these instances.

Examples: a warrior/archer in kpq 21-25ish and warriors 35-43ish at lpq with low accuracy. Most classes do a minimal amount of damage at opq in the early levels as well, so they usually sit out at the higher level monster stages. (Not to mention opq is pretty unpopular as is.)

[Trashman]

The  only people this would affect would be priests and buff mules. I can understand the buff mules loosing leach exp if you wanted that implemented, but you have already done a lot of damage to priest players.

Many have left their priest mains, myself included, because of all the changes to how they are played and how they gain exp. If they lose out on party exp from non undead mobs, there is literally no point to use them in game aside from zak. They essentially just become an HS mule permanently.

I know a lot of people have already given up and turned their priest into a mule, but I would ask that you not alienate any future priests from the class.

[Phantom]

10 hours ago, opman said:

like... what for do this? its 1x lmao

1x has nothing to do with it. Doesn't matter if a server is 1x or 50x, what matters is how much easier is it to level up by leeching off a high level mage versus training your character yourself.

I used to play on a 1x server, run by Nexon.  Leeching was everywhere and obviously a problem. That's because 4th job mage ultimates (Genesis) made leeching ridiculously overpowered.

Now the people at Nexon who created these skills understood that they were OP,  so they put a restriction on them by making them use huge amounts of MP. That would make it very expensive to spam these skills and thus players will have to use them sparingly.  (and you can tell they thought along these lines, because they then came up with another skill called Infinity which saves you MP for a short period of time)

What's funny is that some OTHER people at Nexon came out with new % based potions like Ginger Ale which heals 75% of your HP and MP, and had pot shop NPC sell them at low prices. So now with these cheap % pots you could spam mage ultimates with impunity (at least if the person you're leeching is paying you for it, which in most cases they were)

Edited January 17, 2021 by Phantom
typos

[dumbz]

I can see why this is needed with 4th job mage ults, however, this server currently only has third job, so there is not much leeching.  The only viable forms of leech is bonefish service and power guard leech, which will be patched by v55.  All other places to "leech" aren't worth it at all.  The only class this affects the most is priests.  This also removes "pocket healing" at himes. 

[Arnah]

14 hours ago, dugtrio said:

what if u use a summon bag to kill a low  lvl mob every 2 minutes, would u get  leech  xp  from other  mobs?  or  you would have to  solo kill a specific mob inorder to get  that  specific's mob leech xp?

Just need to damage a killed monster, nothing else matters.

13 hours ago, Rykbi said:

I’m curious if low lvl priests tagging with heal at deep ludi is considered leeching since they have to be active, and in some cases spam healing plus hs benefits their duo (like dk/priest at mdt).

I understand you could lower the threshold for priest/clerics but it seems like you would have to change it based on undead or not. 
 

I’m also curious what you consider for beginners since they are mainly a meme class. I know I wouldn’t have gotten my beginner so high lvl without leeching her for a handful of levels. Maybe it would make the levels more meaningful for people really grinding it out on beginners, but seems like partying would be pretty useless for them since they do so little damage.
 

Last qualm would be about how it effects party exp, like for party quests. There’s always a few levels where some classes do such low damage, or can’t hit at all that they would most likely be shafted in these instances.

Examples: a warrior/archer in kpq 21-25ish and warriors 35-43ish at lpq with low accuracy. Most classes do a minimal amount of damage at opq in the early levels as well, so they usually sit out at the higher level monster stages. (Not to mention opq is pretty unpopular as is.)

Healing monsters will give you damage dealt so it'll give you a few seconds at minimum of leech exp.
Something special for priests is definitely an idea, just need to figure out the best way. Original thought was Priest specific JobMultiplier inc ontop of the default mage on. Not sure if its needed for Cleric though.
Party quests definitely sound like an issue.
And for beginners.. All you have to do is solo kill 1 mob every 100 seconds. Can a beginner not do that? If not, it sounds like they rely way too much on leeching to level or are killing the wrong monster.

10 hours ago, Trashman said:

The  only people this would affect would be priests and buff mules. I can understand the buff mules loosing leach exp if you wanted that implemented, but you have already done a lot of damage to priest players.

Many have left their priest mains, myself included, because of all the changes to how they are played and how they gain exp. If they lose out on party exp from non undead mobs, there is literally no point to use them in game aside from zak. They essentially just become an HS mule permanently.

I know a lot of people have already given up and turned their priest into a mule, but I would ask that you not alienate any future priests from the class.

I'm not trying to directly hurt Priest and this actually is progress towards heal exp being brought back. Buff mules idc and I'll hurt them all day.

"All the changes" is just 1 so far.

6 hours ago, dumbz said:

I can see why this is needed with 4th job mage ults, however, this server currently only has third job, so there is not much leeching.  The only viable forms of leech is bonefish service and power guard leech, which will be patched by v55.  All other places to "leech" aren't worth it at all.  The only class this affects the most is priests.  This also removes "pocket healing" at himes. 

Where do you see this information about v55? PG Leech still existed in 2008 but v55 is in May so it could have changed but I'm unable to find any information saying it did
And how does a priest pocket heal at himes without damaging them?

Edit: Ok I was informed of what I assume you meant by pocket healing. Whoever named that is mad dumb but goes same as where is the proof PG leech got fixed.

[opman]

14 hours ago, Phantom said:

1x has nothing to do with it. Doesn't matter if a server is 1x or 50x, what matters is how much easier is it to level up by leeching off a high level mage versus training your character yourself.

I used to play on a 1x server, run by Nexon.  Leeching was everywhere and obviously a problem. That's because 4th job mage ultimates (Genesis) made leeching ridiculously overpowered.

Now the people at Nexon who created these skills understood that they were OP,  so they put a restriction on them by making them use huge amounts of MP. That would make it very expensive to spam these skills and thus players will have to use them sparingly.  (and you can tell they thought along these lines, because they then came up with another skill called Infinity which saves you MP for a short period of time)

What's funny is that some OTHER people at Nexon came out with new % based potions like Ginger Ale which heals 75% of your HP and MP, and had pot shop NPC sell them at low prices. So now with these cheap % pots you could spam mage ultimates with impunity (at least if the person you're leeching is paying you for it, which in most cases they were)

lol

6 hours ago, Arnah said:

"All the changes" is just 1 so far.

that's not needed ❤️

[Ghost]

I agree with the proposal.  I personally have leeched myself and others at wraiths and coolies on a priest.  The EXP gained was the same or near it, even without max HS.  The EXP division favors both parties. That is more along the lines of how party EXP is divided, but this is one fix to that issue.

[dumbz]

ahh you're right.  I'm seeing videos where they're still pg leeching in 2010.  lol.  easy fix is to make exp split damage% based. 

[Rin1]

I agree with anti-leeching. Thanks for letting us know 🙂

Edited January 24, 2021 by Rin1

[Arnah]

I've updated the original post. I'll list the changes so you can understand what to check for when re-reading.

 

Cleric & Priests have special handling for Heal.
Lowered the total 'leech time' you can get.
Lowered the amount of time you get per % of damage

 

One concern still is Party Quests but the leech checks can be ignored in those if no other alternative exists.

[opman]

For priests tagging an Attacker on non-healable mob, it’s highly unlikely for priests to use any other form of attack skills other than heal or just cause of bad lags.

 

Solution: Maybe we could increase/refresh the priest leech timer on every damage inflicted onto the priest.

Edited March 17, 2021 by opman

[RickSenchez]

im not sure how things where before, but right now im at a points with my priest (level 91) that its not worth for me to due and stick together with some1 because he gets the exp for doing more dmg.. only way i get decent exp is by splitng from the party member and get kills myself.

 

some numbers for exemple: 
when i due with a level 86 white knight in blue & black kents when i split from him and kill black kents and he kills blue i get 1.6m exp ph (and the map has ok spawn nothing more)

when i due with him on blue kents map and we stick together i get less then half the exp (about 700k ph and the spawn is much better in this map we are clearly killing more mobs per min)

same gose for DK due in deep ludi\himes - its better for me to get HB mule and solo\due with low level priest

 

so i would say that priest get penetlized for half the potential EXP they could have gotten for not doing the dmg (but they support the DPS who dose)

 

if i would have gotten heal exp that would somehow make up for that exp gap so that would be fine, then both sides benefits, and priests can actually support their party insted of giving HS and split.

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by RickSenchez

[Kradia]

Looks solid for a first iteration. The system is very lenient like you said and that might be okay for now. Later, if you notice people getting around this too easily, like I am suspecting they will, you could add a damage % threshold on the mob. "Deal at least 60% of a mob's HP to be eligible of gaining party EXP for x amount of seconds".

The cleric and priest heal handling is very creative and I like it. I think it should work well. Well done!