Suggestion for Lord Pirate party quest to be added

[halfway]

Pirate PQ should be in the game by now at around this version. I believe that it could make a nice addition to the server by being a balanced party quest for people who want to level together with their friends and earn a semi-decent hat as an alternative to the Zakum Helmet.

Here's a comparison between 2 of the main party-quests in the game right now and Pirate PQ

Ludi PQ (35-51):

• Gives 24.350k exp per run (not counting mob/boss exp)
• Has a bonus stage for extra capes/earrings rewards
• Rewards players with pots/equips/ores/scrolls
• Takes on average 15-20 minutes

Orbis PQ (51-71)

• Gives roughly 70k~ exp per run (not counting mob/boss exp)
• Has a bonus stage for extra capes/earrings/rewards
• Rewards players with pots/equips/ores/scrolls
• Takes on average 18-25 minutes

Pirate PQ (55-100):

• Gives roughly 20 to 35k exp per run (not counting mob/boss exp) depending on the levels of your party members 
• Has a few semi-decent scrolls that sometimes drops from the boss in the final stage
• Rewards players with a pirate hat with up to +5 all stats after a significant amount of runs
• Takes on average 15-20 minutes

Compared to other party quests, PPQ's rewards do not stand out that much with the exception of a untradable hat. The exp per run is similar to opq when you consider the exp from the mobs you kill inside, which could potentially remove some of the incentive for people to do OPQ; an idea to fix this issue could be by changing it's level requirement from 55 to 60+, since It can also be too fast at these early levels.

edit: typo

Edited March 2, 2021 by halfway

[Juneee]

 

9 hours ago, halfway said:

The exp per run is similar to opq when you consider the exp from the mobs you kill inside, which could potentially remove some of the incentive for people to do OPQ; an idea to fix this issue could be by changing it's level requirement from 55 to 60+, since It can also be too fast at these early levels.

+1 i dont see a reason not to have PPQ. It's got a good goal for people to look forward to which is the +5 hat after completing like 500 runs and the level req to wear is 90 and untradeable, so its not even OP or anything. (nexon later changed it to 350, makes sense cause 500 is just absurd for a PQ that is difficult, doesn't provide good exp and the rewards are lackluster) 

Which I think Phoenix should follow(or reduced even more actually) if PPQ is implemented because we already have a low pop and not everyone would want to do PPQ because zhelm is way way better and you could buy one much earlier as well. So making it 500 runs of ppq would not be sensible, even nexon realised it on a normal pop server.
 

This can help people who burn out from grinding, letting people take their mind off things to do something else instead of grinding. This also helps people who cannot afford to buy a zhelm yet as well since its like 80mil for <110 level.
 

But i think changing it to be 71-100 is good so that it doesnt make OPQ obsolete.
Makes PQ progression on Phoenix streamlined as well:
HPQ 10-21
KPQ 21-30
LPQ 35-50
OPQ 51-70
and then PPQ 71-100

Edited March 3, 2021 by Juneee

[opman]

+1

[sewil]

-1 PPQ is boring and uninspiring. I wouldn't even call it a PQ, there's no problem solving, you don't need a particular class's ability like teleport/haste/dark sight/hb, basically no teamwork needed, you just grind high exp monsters and get some drops. 55-100 should be harder than that.

Edited March 3, 2021 by sewil

[DannyAmeri]

+1 but you're not on peenix.

[halfway]

3 hours ago, DannyAmeri said:

+1 but you're not on peenix.

I still play a little bit of peenix every few days, Just taking it casually cause I started Uni haha :)
Which is sort of one of the reasons why I'd be interested in this server having ppq.  Would be a nice addition for casuals who want to limit themselves to a couple of pq runs a day.

Edited March 3, 2021 by halfway

[Kradia]

I'm of the opinion that there are enough PQs for the game. The issue with adding more PQs is that it replaces previously viable content if it's too good. Even if it's balanced inline with the older content, having too many alternate ways of levelling will become an issue. We are already a very small player base and I feel like adding more alternatives just sets the players apart even more. One could argue that PQs will make people come together - Yes, but at the cost of the previous content becoming obsolete.

We already have very defined early game content from levels 1-120 with so many different things you can do. Instead of adding another alternative, we should focus on bringing the less active content back to viability by adding specific drops to incentivise players to go elsewhere.

What I mean by "go elsewhere" is that, with games, certain "flowcharts" will establish once the meta has been figured out. At this level you go here, at that level you go there for efficiency and whatnot. We need to break that flowchart and make alternate content actually matter.

[doug]

-1

[halfway]

Just because there already are plenty of pqs in the game does not mean that it would be in the server's interests to remove content that should have been released already. Some people play this game for nostalgic purposes, and to have fun with friends. Some have fun doing OPQ runs, others find PPQ more enjoyable. Just because both of those PQs coexist does not mean that it would wean players off the server. People already have discord groups where they organize pq runs, and many of them switch between their alts to lpq/opq depending on how many players are doing them;

Though there are people whom take the game seriously and try to get the fastest exp/h, It doesn't seem like the addition of PPQ would inconvenience them in any way. If people don't like these areas that come with new version updates, they aren't forced to partake in them. Doesn't seem like the server will suffer in any way from allowing players to play new content; phoenix is advertised as a "oldschool" server, not as a custom server that removes content that is deemed not hardcore enough. I hope that this server will live up to how it's advertised and provide the most authentic experience of Pre-BB GMS.

 

[halfway]

 PPQ is less broken than the event party quest or CPQ. At the moment it's hard to find people to do orbis pq with but if we had PPQ, which should be out by now,  it would be easier to find people since the cap is lvl 100.

[Nexon]

I certainly think PPQ would be a great addition. +1! 

[Juneee]

bump +1 

 

 

[manfroy]

On 3/3/2021 at 10:02 PM, Kradia said:

What I mean by "go elsewhere" is that, with games, certain "flowcharts" will establish once the meta has been figured out. At this level you go here, at that level you go there for efficiency and whatnot. We need to break that flowchart and make alternate content actually matter.

How would you make alternate content more viable than the exp meta maps? There are a lot of maps that can be categorized as off-meta. Hell, a lot of mobs got good scroll drops from v56 and I'm sure a lot of those mobs dont even get farmed. It's a logistical nightmare for Arnah to make even a decent portion of the alternate content available better than the meta.

and again, PPQ can be adjusted to be balanced.

If not PPQ, What about Romeo and Juliet PQ when magatia eventually releases? by those level ranges just grinding is multitudes of order better than what it can provide, and the pendant reward is just as, if not even more tedious to acquire.

[Kradia]

8 hours ago, manfroy said:

How would you make alternate content more viable than the exp meta maps? There are a lot of maps that can be categorized as off-meta. Hell, a lot of mobs got good scroll drops from v56 and I'm sure a lot of those mobs dont even get farmed.

That's a good question. There are many ways but this is the one I always wanted to see personally.

This goes a little off-topic so I'll put it in a spoiler.

Spoiler

One way to go about it would've been to make drop rates significantly better on the off-meta maps. One example of many is if you look at Shield for LUK 60%. This scroll is obtainable multiple places but for some reason it's placed at Skeles, an endgame meta map. Why would anyone leave this map if they can get the best exp and a chance of getting this scroll? So what if the drop rate elsewhere (less popular or dead map) was adjusted to something like 1.5x or even 2x? If players knew that to be the case, I think the chance of people going back to previous maps would be a lot higher because they get a lot more kills. You apply this logic to every single item drop and you'll have a much more balanced out world.

Ludibrium could've been the place to go for drops, which is why I wanted a Ludi exchange (think hard in difficulty as Orbis but chance of some dark scrolls). It's not longer relevant in exp. 
One map in Aqua is still very viable for exp, but there was never anything else to Aqua in Phoenix. It could use some love and defining.
Leafre is already in a good spot. But there could've been a Leafre exchange and good rewards put through the less killed mobs. This way you encourage people to kill even the less popular mobs like Beetles, Harps and all the different lower level mobs that people usually don't kill.

This way we would also see drops that no longer drop on Phoenix. When is the last time you've heard of a Heaven's Gate drop? It must've been months. With my idea, people could potentially go to Gigantic Spirit Vikings and farm their etc to turn in to the Ludi exchange for a certain dark scroll. Then we'd see Heaven's Gate and a lot of different items that we haven't seen in a long time drop again.

And something I wanna comment on..

8 hours ago, manfroy said:

It's a logistical nightmare for Arnah to make even a decent portion of the alternate content available better than the meta

All it requires is small adjustments towards a more balanced game every patch. It doesn't have to be perfect next patch. Heading there over the course of 3-5 patches would suffice.

8 hours ago, manfroy said:

If not PPQ, What about Romeo and Juliet PQ when magatia eventually releases?

I'm not against higher level PQs and making the game easier for people to level. What I'm opposed to is when 2 PQs co-exist in the same level range but one overshadows the other and on top of that, the PQs being miles better than hunting/grinding. But I also don't particularly like any content that enables the player to idle game for insane rewards (think GS2) which I feel PPQ has a lot of resemblence of, because of how you just kill mobs, drop keys and move on to the next stages. LMPQ is an even worse offender of this.

Magatia PQ has really good design and is probably one of my favourites. It requires effort. Unfortunately, I don't like the issues that Magatia brings to the game (mobs for these levels already existing and overshadowing of old maps). We'll see what Arnah's take on Magatia is.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Kradia

[Juneee]

8 hours ago, Kradia said:

I'm not against higher level PQs and making the game easier for people to level. What I'm opposed to is when 2 PQs co-exist in the same level range but one overshadows the other and on top of that, the PQs being miles better than hunting/grinding. But I also don't particularly like any content that enables the player to idle game for insane rewards (think GS2) which I feel PPQ has a lot of resemblence of, because of how you just kill mobs, drop keys and move on to the next stages. LMPQ is an even worse offender of this.

1) I dont think PPQ exp is even good to compared to grinding to begin with.. So PPQ doesnt really make the game easier for people to level and is definitely not "miles" better than grinding, there's nothing insanely rewarding about PPQ at all. In fact, PPQ exp gets taxed heavily if you have party members over 70 or 80 iirc..

2) What it does give though is like I mentioned earlier below.. It provides an alternative to grinding. and PPQ hat most definitely needs some tweaking as well when it comes to the +5 hat requirements because that many runs is just stupid. You would already have a zhelm or are over lvl 100+ already by the time you reach the amount of PQs..

You dont like the idea of low level players getting zhelms way too easily nowadays right.. Here's a solution you could work with.. Make the lvl 90 +5 PPQ hat something "reasonably" obtainable then.. Let this hat be a mini-stepping stone goal for players. So that they can aim to get this first instead of straight going for a zhelm. Let them use this hat until they are 100 before thinking of getting zhelms.. In fact, change the req from lvl 90 to level 80 to make it more possible. Because at lvl 90 requirement, people would just grind out 10 more levels and get zhelm which is way more worth it that the +5 ppq hat..

 

3) I agree with the 2 PQs co-existing thing, thats why i proposed making PPQ a 71-100 pq instead. So that OPQ isn't obsolete.. but when you look at it, OPQ is naturally obsolete anyway because the exp is really trash compared to grinding. 

 

On 3/3/2021 at 12:54 PM, Juneee said:

 

+1 i dont see a reason not to have PPQ. It's got a good goal for people to look forward to which is the +5 hat after completing like 500 runs and the level req to wear is 90 and untradeable, so its not even OP or anything. (nexon later changed it to 350, makes sense cause 500 is just absurd for a PQ that is difficult, doesn't provide good exp and the rewards are lackluster) 

Which I think Phoenix should follow(or reduced even more actually) if PPQ is implemented because we already have a low pop and not everyone would want to do PPQ because zhelm is way way better and you could buy one much earlier as well. So making it 500 runs of ppq would not be sensible, even nexon realised it on a normal pop server.
 

This can help people who burn out from grinding, letting people take their mind off things to do something else instead of grinding. This also helps people who cannot afford to buy a zhelm yet as well since its like 80mil for <110 level.
 

But i think changing it to be 71-100 is good so that it doesnt make OPQ obsolete.
Makes PQ progression on Phoenix streamlined as well:
HPQ 10-21
KPQ 21-30
LPQ 35-50
OPQ 51-70
and then PPQ 71-100

 

[Kradia]

58 minutes ago, Juneee said:

1) I dont think PPQ exp is even good to compared to grinding to begin with.. So PPQ doesnt really make the game easier for people to level and is definitely not "miles" better than grinding, there's nothing insanely rewarding about PPQ at all. In fact, PPQ exp gets taxed heavily if you have party members over 70 or 80 iirc..

Never claimed it was better and honestly, I don't even know the exp numbers on PPQ. From what you're saying, Nexon did one part right in not making it super rewarding.

What I think PQs in Maple should be is an alternate way to progress with your friends and have some fun. A supplement. Think of grinding mobs as your workout and PQs as your protein powder. This is what I think PQs should be. The workout is the most important and always should be. 

But I guess I failed to clarify the issue I see with PPQ:
PPQ promotes "idle gaming" where you turn off your brain and just rush from one stage to another. There are no real tasks except the key stage and even that is braindead. Every stage is just slaying more mobs.  It has some similarities with LMPQ in terms of how dull it is. Good PQs are more creative and have several tasks your party has to solve together.

While I do think the Pirate hat is worth being discussed, it's going to lead into a whole different topic about item design philosophy regarding all items and honestly, I don't see the point in wasting my breath any longer discussing the topic because I don't see it being taken into consideration.

With that being said, it's not up to me so regard my opinion as any other opinion. I have no say in this and I'm sure if everyone asks for PPQ, we will get PPQ. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Kradia

[Juneee]

1 hour ago, Kradia said:

Never claimed it was better and honestly, I don't even know the exp numbers on PPQ. From what you're saying, Nexon did one part right in not making it super rewarding.

What I think PQs in Maple should be is an alternate way to progress with your friends and have some fun. A supplement. Think of grinding mobs as your workout and PQs as your protein powder. This is what I think PQs should be. The workout is the most important and always should be. 

 

Literally what you said. So you have no idea what the exp numbers are and you say they are insane rewards for idle gameplay??

You know the mobs are actually hard for lvl <80 right? So its not exactly like cake walk brain dead gameplay like healing coolies/himes either... Yes it doesnt have "puzzle" stages like the other PQs, i'll give you that. But to put it simply as "you just kill mobs" is just overstating it. The mobs are very tanky for low levels. In fact, I could see it being a pot drainer as well. Which means if you dont have a cleric/priest in your pt youre going to lose mesos.

11 hours ago, Kradia said:

What I'm opposed to is when 2 PQs co-exist in the same level range but one overshadows the other and on top of that, the PQs being miles better than hunting/grinding. But I also don't particularly like any content that enables the player to idle game for insane rewards (think GS2) which I feel PPQ has a lot of resemblence of, because of how you just kill mobs, drop keys and move on to the next stages. LMPQ is an even worse offender of this.

 

At its original form, PPQ in our servers context is totally not worth doing at all FOR exp. and PPQ doesnt give any other rewards as well. So its not like you can get scroll rewards like LPQ/OPQ or tons and tons of potions to npc or capes/earrings to npc.. The only thing its good for is to get the +5 pirate hat. But in its original form and without tweaks is very stupidly hard to obtain. Even the Silver dep medal is an easier way to obtain a +5 all stats item.

I honestly believe lowering the +5 pirate hat's amount of pq requirements and making it lvl 80 instead of 90 to wear is a really good and unique mid-game upgrade. It also makes it so that players dont feel the need to get a zhelm asap. I dont like seeing lvl 60s/70/80s wearing zhelms either.. They get the zhelm and then quit soon after and never contribute back to future runs because well, they already have a zhelm.. Theres nothing else to motivate them to grind further or to reach another goal because the zhelm is still by far the BIS item in the game.

So with this change we can actually prevent that from happening. Same time we can make zhelms cost a lot more to obtain (than it currently is) say if you are under level 100 and insist on getting a zhelm but you are not someone who can/has contribute to zakum runs. That way, the zak runners can get paid way more as well (than the current new prices of 1~2m) which makes it worth their time to zak as well.. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Juneee

[Kradia]

56 minutes ago, Juneee said:

Literally what you said.

I did not.

I said it resembles of idle gaming for insane rewards. 
Definition of Resemblance:

Spoiler

 

Resemblance in this context was the braindead part of the PQ, which I further clarified in the post prior to this one:
https://forum.playphoenix.net/topic/635-suggestion-for-lord-pirate-party-quest-to-be-added/?do=findComment&comment=3416
The bold text to be very specific because my words seem to being twisted. The design sucks. That's just my opinion

56 minutes ago, Juneee said:

You know the mobs are actually hard for lvl <80 right? So its not exactly like cake walk brain dead gameplay like healing coolies/himes either... 

I know the design of the PQ very well because I've done it on other servers. Never with vanilla exp so I got no clue what the exp is like but that's besides the point. The design is my issue with it.

56 minutes ago, Juneee said:

Yes it doesnt have "puzzle" stages like the other PQs, i'll give you that. But to put it simply as "you just kill mobs" is just overstating it.

Exactly, it doesn't have puzzle stages like other PQs and therefore bad design in my opinon.
I don't think I am overstating it when I say "you just kill mobs" to further progress in the PQ:
https://global.hidden-street.net/party-quest/herb-town/stage-1-on-the-way-to-the-pirate-ship
You actually progress from stage to stage on flat maps killing mobs and collecting etc that you turn in to the NPCs. Other than that, there is the key stage.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Kradia

[halfway]

Quote

PPQ promotes "idle gaming" where you turn off your brain and just rush from one stage to another

Same can be said for grinding, though PPQ actually requires more effort since you're not just killing the same mobs over and over again, you actually have to pay attention to what you're doing. You're clearing maps, farming etcs from waves of mobs & handing them in to a npc, farming keys then trying to close all doors without getting hit after your party has 4 keys, killing the pirate boss... That's far less braindead than most of the meta grinding spots like 94th floor, windraiders, himes, etc where you don't have to pay much attention to the gameplay and can simply have party members stationed in different corners of the map for steady exp.

Quote

You actually progress from stage to stage on flat maps killing mobs and collecting etc that you turn in to the NPCs. Other than that, there is the key stage.

It's not just flat maps where you have to kill mobs. Some maps have mobs spawning on three separate platforms, there isn't a single map where mobs spawn on a single platform. It takes teamwork and attention to clear these maps efficiently, if you leave out a single mob in the mob clearing maps, you can't progress to the next stage.

Edited March 18, 2022 by halfway

[Nexon]

I LOVED PPQ back in the day. I remember running it all the time. Quite challenging. I think it would be a great addition. 

[manfroy]

bbb hidden street should have the accurate exp values for the pq clears(which ARE PENALIZED as the average lv of the party increases). as for the pq mobs themselves, they dont exactly give the best exp

[D4wdl]

I would like to have it in the game with a nerf to the hat stats so it doesn't compete against the normal classes gear.

But I do feel like i'm missing the PQ in my nostalgia reliving experience. I liked to do that one personally and wondered why I couldn't play it.

[McLovin]

Yes please add please

 

[halfway]

Would really be nice to have this pq since it's very hard to find people for orbis PQ. Would be easier with this party quest since it requires fewer people and has a higher level cap.

Edited June 19, 2022 by halfway
typo