The "Kishin" mule issue and solution

[Kradia]

It's been getting out of hand recently with mules. High level players have started bringing as many characters into maps as possible, all to increase the spawn. This is a a gamechanger and we're facing a really difficult issue if this gets taken away. Player motivation is already low. I'm personally afraid that removing this (vanilla) game mechanic, without any form of reward/compensation would demoralize players to continue playing.

So here is hopefully a solution that everyone will agree with.

Because the party bonus EXP hasn't been touched since it was last very slightly increased, and it seems like the interest to further increase it isn't there, I have been toying with this idea of increasing spawn, but in an organic way to the game.

First, let's solve the mule issue:

Spoiler

If character is flagged by the anti leech system, do not count said character in the map.

As for the solution:

Spoiler

If an active character is 20 levels above the highest level mob in the map, mob count increases by +1.
This increase stacks up twice, meaning a character that is 40 levels above the highest level mob, mob count will increase by +2.

This should count for every single active character in the map. I imagine seeing 6-man parties more frequently, all with +2 extra mob count per player, meaning 12 extra mobs.


 

But why?

This rewards players that have outleveled mobs by a lot. Usually those players will be the ones lacking spawn the most and the opportunity of party play get worse. Implementing this further encourages party play. 

This idea has been thoroughly thought through. Apply this to lower level areas and the effects are minimal, but effective. Very rarely will players stay in maps where they are more than 20 levels higher than the mob and 40 levels very rarely happens, except the highest level maps.

Finally, Kishin mules will be no more. It looks fucking dumb being in a map with 20+ idle characters.

Edited October 23, 2021 by Kradia

[manfroy]

ironman players when they cant do the same thing go crazy go stupid haha rip days

this doesnt seem like a bad idea though, only thing I have a gripe about is how many levels above but I wouldnt know the exact number that would work the most

in the future I feel like this could hurt lower level players as higher level players would only seek out parties with other players who meet that max level check

[Arnah]

Rather just block multiclienting

[Kradia]

Blocking multiclienting won't solve the issue I was presenting.

Bonus party EXP is really bad and only works if there is enough spawn.
The kishin thing sort of solved that issue but in a very artificial, and not very organic way.

This what the whole point with the thread:

On 10/22/2021 at 6:19 AM, Kradia said:

This rewards players that have outleveled mobs by a lot. Usually those players will be the ones lacking spawn the most and the opportunity of party play get worse. Implementing this further encourages party play. 

This would also help players of really high level farm more difficult drops. Having an additional 2 mobs (assuming you're 40+ levels higher than the mob) in the map for being higher level would feel really rewarding.

[opman]

+1, sounds good and I agree with manfroy's concern.

Alternatively, I'd prefer spawns to be based on how fast the mobs are cleared in the lane before the next wave spawns and then only trigger bonus spawns to compensate for those higher levels who had to wait for spawn. Of course if at all feasible, code wise.

Example:

- If all spawns in map cleared within 9s:
Bonus spawn in map = (leftover duration of no spawn in map before next wave) * map active player count
Which translate to Bonus spawn = (10 -9) * map active player count = (1) * 6 = 6.

- If all spawns per lane cleared within 9s:
Bonus spawn per lane = (leftover duration of no spawn in lane before next wave) * lane proximity active player count
Which translate to Bonus spawn = (10 -9) * lane proximity active player count = (1) * 2 = 2.

Using 6 (ideal setup) and 2 (lane sharing scenario) for map and lane proximity player count.

Spawns per lane may be trickier to identify but if done right, would encourage a robust scaling system for bonus spawns. This would also effectively propel jobs that mainly mobs with skills that has 6 hit count (priests/sader/wk/cb) per skill and those with short reach, where in cases of 3-4 hit count could be improved to even 4-6 count depending on their skills in weaving mobs and clearing, not to mention the improved efficiency in warriors pot burn per mob killed (mobbing 6 vs 3). As well as allowing for a wider level party range to take flight with the faster clear time lanes still benefiting based on their capability.

Where if bonus spawns were based on whole map, it may spawn in sectors that may negatively affect the lower dmg dealers and cause more likelihood for pot wastage and death. If however, a map spawn buff were to happen based on the example, maybe it could be based on selected spot/area (and not random) for bonus spawns, so that individuals could position appropriate classes if necessary.

Edited November 30, 2021 by opman

[sewil]

I think the problem is that players have outleveled the mobs due to lack of higher-level content. With more higher-level content and mobs there would be no need to increase spawn in lower-level areas

Edited December 2, 2021 by sewil

[Kradia]

Would still like to hear thoughts on this subject. Note that the point of this suggestion was to reward players of immensively higher level compared to the mob, with more spawn in the map and further make:

1) Party play better
2) Hunting for items better

Lastly, the idea came about because of the lack of bonus party EXP. All we got was a placebo buff of 1.5% per additional party member in a party of 4 or more.

[Kradia]

Bump

[NixMar]

buff spawn in higher level maps in general

[Arnah]

capacity increase will be removed next update, some maps will need a bit of buffs but 🙂